The job description is pretty sparse, the laws are convoluted and the path from A to Z seems fraught with peril. So how does a person go from candidate to nominee to Leader of the Free World? We asked some heavy hitters for the inside scoop on running for President.
Settle in for a long and strange ride with Former Governor and Democratic nominee for President, Michael Dukakis, CNN political analyst Bakari Sellers and founding partner of Purple Strategies, Mark Squier.
Episode Segments
TRANSCRIPT
NOTE: This transcript was generated using an automated transcription service, and may contain typographical errors.
[00:00:00] Civics 101 is brought to you in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:11] Nick and I are a little nervous, in part because Michael Dukakis is not answering the door.
Nick Capodice: [00:00:18] Seems to be another door.
[00:00:20] Maybe this could be one of the two houses that are next to each other.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:26] Good morning.
Michael Dukakis: [00:00:27] Good morning.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:29] Michael Dukakis was governor of Massachusetts from 1975 to 1979 and then from 83 to 91.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:37] And in 88...
Archival: [00:00:38] It did not come as a surprise, but Michael Dukakis did make it official today, declaring his candidacy for president. Dukakis made his formal announcements and...
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:46] He also happened to be the Democratic nominee for president of the United States.
Michael Dukakis: [00:00:51] My fellow Democrats, my fellow Americans.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:00:55] Atlanta, Georgia, July 21st, 1988.
Michael Dukakis: [00:00:58] 16 months ago, [00:01:00] when I announce my candidacy for the presidency of the United States, I said this campaign would be a marathon. Tonight with a wind at our backs, with friends at our sides and with courage in our hearts. The race to the finish line began.
[00:01:36] Did a great job on the primary, unfortunately, screwed up the final. Which was a very winnable race but didn't do the grassroots stuff and made a decision which turned out to be pretty dumb decision that I was not going to respond to the Bush attack campaign. You know, keep it positive. This that and the other thing. You want to keep it positive.
[00:01:57] But if somebody is going to hit you with stuff, you've [00:02:00] got to have a carefully thought out strategy for dealing with it.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:02:04] Governor Dukakis did not win the 1988 election. George H.W. Bush did. And yes, there were attack ads and they were pretty rough. But that that is not what we are here for today.
[00:02:20] We want to try to explain to listeners what is really, truly like to run for president. I think maybe we should start with what it takes.
[00:02:32] I mean, what kind of a person can reasonably endeavor to do it? What does it take to do it?
[00:02:41] Not sure there's a clear definition. I mean, we all have our own story. I'm a greek kid, parents came over...
Hannah McCarthy: [00:02:49] Michael Dukakis' story? He's the child of Greek immigrants, grew up in a Boston plagued by racial and religious tension. And early on, he was affected by the injustices he saw in his community. [00:03:00] He went to college, served in Korea, went to Harvard Law, and then he got himself elected to the Massachusetts House of Reps. From there, he became governor of Massachusetts.
[00:03:11] And in his third term, people started coming to him with a question. Was he interested in running for president?
Michael Dukakis: [00:03:20] And I said, look, I kind of want to enjoy this victory. At least until the end of the year. And I'll take a look at it, but it's 90 percent and I am very happy doing what I'm doing. And if I said, OK, I'm going to take three months.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:03:40] And the question Dukakis is asking himself at this point?
Michael Dukakis: [00:03:44] I mean, is it a job I can do?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:03:46] Are you ready to be leader of the free world?
Michael Dukakis: [00:03:49] First three months, I'm just going to spend time meeting with people whose judgment I respect and saying, look, is this something I really should seriously consider? [00:04:00] And I don't I don't want to. I want you to sugarcoat this thing. I mean, is it a job I can do? I was serious about it. I mean, it's kind of a pretty big assignment. You know?
Nick Capodice: [00:04:11] Now, wait.
[00:04:12] I agree. That's a very important part of the process. A very big question to answer. But how you actually get the job, how do you literally run for president?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:04:24] Luckily, Nick, that is exactly why we are here today. So let's get to it already. I'm Hannah McCarthy.
[00:04:30] I'm Nick Capodice.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:04:30] And this is Civics 101 on the presidential election.
Nick Capodice: [00:04:34] Today, the campaign, how do you run for president? How does this operation actually happen?
[00:04:39] The only job description is in the Constitution. Article 2, the executive power shall be vested in a president.
[00:04:46] But how do you know if you're really right for the job? How do you know you're supposed to do?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:04:51] I mean, aside from the constitution, we don't really have a job description.
Michael Dukakis: [00:04:55] Yeah, but if you've been in politics as long as I was, I mean, you've got a pretty good idea of what the president does and [00:05:00] it doesn't hurt to been a governor.
[00:05:02] But I can tell you that you can't be a very good president and come from Congress or the senator or some other place.
[00:05:12] But it doesn't hurt to have been responsible for managing government and picking good people, which is so important.
[00:05:22] It's this is a people business and the quality and caliber of the folks that you pick as a chief executive are just the most important thing you've got to think about. That gives you a nice kind of experience base, but it's a big job.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:05:47] It helps, obviously, to have a sense of what running things like a government really looks like. I mean, all but one president, Donald J. Trump, has had some military or government experience before running. So it's not a necessity, [00:06:00] but it is a plus.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:01] And I know there are certain requirements.
[00:06:03] You have to be a natural born U.S. citizen.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:06] Mhm. Which pretty much means born in the United States for the intents and purposes of a presidential election.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:11] And you have to have been living in the United States for at least 14 years.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:14] No recent expats, sir.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:16] And you got to be 35 years old.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:17] I'm out, you're in.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:19] A gentleman never reveals his age, unless running for president.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:22] Next step, the Federal Election Commission says that there are a few things that you're allowed to do before you actually become a capital C candidate.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:30] Is this where the exploratory committee comes in? Bunch of people trying to figure out whether or not you're a viable candidate for the party?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:37] Exactly. Otherwise known as a testing the Waters Committee, you can conduct polling. You can make phone calls, travel scope out the field, even raise money under an exploratory committee. So long as you are not campaigning.
Nick Capodice: [00:06:49] A-huh.
[00:06:52] So you're basically saying you can campaign without campaigning.
Bakari Sellers: [00:06:56] The worst kept secret of anybody running for office is when they do an exploratory [00:07:00] committee. I've never I've honestly never seen watching politics my entire life. I've never seen anybody have an exploratory committee that didn't run for office.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:07:08] Bakari Sellers, folks, a beloved repeat guest and CNN political analyst. Here's the story with exploratory committees. The FEC says you can't raise more than five grand while you're sniffing around the presidency because that triggers the candidate label. But an exploratory committee gets an exemption. They don't have to file financial reports so long as the potential candidate is not an official candidate.
Nick Capodice: [00:07:32] So by exemption, you mean loophole.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:07:34] Yeah, but the second it is somehow clear to the FEC that you aren't just dipping a toe in the water. You are at risk of being called out as a candidate. This can be because you've raised way too much money.
Nick Capodice: [00:07:45] But they have no way of knowing that since you're not reporting anything.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:07:48] We're just not going to touch that one. That's Civics 606 campaign finance law. But you can also tip the FEC off by going on TV and slipping up and calling yourself a candidate [00:08:00] or making a sign that says Capodice 2020.
Nick Capodice: [00:08:04] It feels so a hazy still and unofficial.
[00:08:08] You're a candidate and you're calling yourself a candidate. This has happened for real. What's next? What's the actual thing? What's the actual thing that says, I am running for president?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:08:18] The actual thing?
Nick Capodice: [00:08:19] Yes.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:08:20] The forms. Yeah. Your forms. you have form one and form two. That's statement of organization and statement of candidacy. You can't file one without the other. You've got the committee that's trying to elect the candidate and you've got the candidate itself.
Nick Capodice: [00:08:36] This committee. Are we talking about PACs, political action committees?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:08:40] Well, we could be. There is space to register a PAC on form one. But what you need to know is that candidates have their principal committee that's subject to contribution limits. And then there are, quote, independent PACs that can raise unlimited funds in support of though not technically affiliated with [00:09:00] a candidate. And let's get one thing clear here. You want to be president?
Bakari Sellers: [00:09:05] So, I mean, I think the number one rule about campaign money is to raise as much of it as you can. I mean, that that would be if you're trying to run for office now, that would be my number one rule. Right. And and people always say, well, why do we get money out of politics? Great idea. Absolutely phenomenal idea. But until that day comes. Raise as much money as you can.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:09:23] Money does not necessarily mean a political action committee. Grassroots fundraising can and does make a difference. But suffice it to say, you've got to come by money one way or another if you're going to get your face and your voice plastered around the country and you maybe have to be a little crazy, too.
Bakari Sellers: [00:09:41] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, that's very narcissistic process and sociopath. Anybody running for president of the United States who believes that the entire country wants to follow you and choose them to be the leader of this great country has a slight dose of psychopathy. Because you don't just. I don't mean this to sound funny, but [00:10:00] when I speak to people around the country, especially young people, and they tell me they want to run for office, they ask for advice, and I say, have you ever met anyone who's halfway pregnant? And the answer to that is no. Either you are or you're not. There's no sticking your toe into politics. It's all consuming.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:10:19] I think it can sometimes be easy to forget that inside these shiny, quaffed, suit wearing stump speech making candidates are human beings. And when you enter the race, you are gobbled up by it. The campaign becomes everything.
[00:10:36] Right.
[00:10:37] Ok, the campaign. So first we have primary season, right?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:10:40] Right. Before you can get onto the ballot for president, you have to be nominated for president by your party. And in order to be nominated, you have to prove that voters are going to want you.
Nick Capodice: [00:10:51] Iowa State Fair, even corn dogs, kissing cows in New Hampshire, talking to folks in barns. We watch this stuff play [00:11:00] out every four years. We do. But -- but how do you get from that antiseptic form one and form two to flying around the country and fair food and trying to make everybody love you?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:11:12] You have to start by finding the people who know what they're doing and you have to get their buy in. People like Mark Squier who look for someone who really wants the job.
Mark Squier: [00:11:22] So I would say sort of an initial one is that sort of fire in the belly.
[00:11:27] Mark is a partner at Purple Strategies, a communications firm that prides itself on going for the bipartisan approach. Before that, he worked on campaigns, notably Howard Dean, who ran for president back in 2004. You may remember him by his scream.
Nick Capodice: [00:11:42] You didn't ask him about the scream. Did you ask him about the scream?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:11:44] He brought it up.
Nick Capodice: [00:11:46] What'd he say?
Mark Squier: [00:11:47] And I know you're going to ask me about the scream and I'll get into that later.
[00:11:51] But.
Howard Dean: [00:11:51] And then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:11:58] Now, when Mark thinks about [00:12:00] taking a candidate on, he tries to evaluate whether they have a shot of convincing people that they are the one.
Mark Squier: [00:12:06] We remember when when the government came in and told us that he wanted to run. And I don't know, at that time, Bush looked completely invincible. Right. It was it was like, who is going to take this guy on? Because his the invasion in Iraq had been fairly successful and people were feeling okay about that. The economy was OK. And and, you know, Governor Dean was like, listen, I want to do this just because I want to talk about health care. And I've been a governor and I'm a doc and I got something to say about it. And we're like, okay, great. And we'd been with him for quite a while through his governors races. And eventually what happened was he took off like a rocket ship and we had to make a decision as a firm, frankly, just to go get on board and move to Burlington.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:12:52] So the campaign starts off kind of romantic, but, you know, it can't stay that way. You might start with fire in the belly, [00:13:00] but then you have to start playing by the rules. You have to do Iowa. You have to do New Hampshire. You have to play to the voters and you have to find the people with cash. Oh, and you're basically building a temporary business while you're at it.
Mark Squier: [00:13:15] You know, in Howard's case, you know, we were initially sort of a lot of people that had worked on this governor's race based in Burlington. You know, and eventually you have to set up shop in Des Moines, Iowa and New Hampshire. And then eventually these things keep going. You can then get sort of some field offices. There are satellites in those two states. And -- and then maybe you're starting to look at South Carolina, Nevada now.
Nick Capodice: [00:13:37] So I'm assuming this is the principle campaign committee who's doing all this work? But where do the PACs come in? Like when you see an ad attacking one candidate or puffing up another one, and at the end, it says something like paid for by the Freedom Lovers PAC, not authorized by any candidate, like it or not. Don't you just need people flooded with TV coverage? If you can't ask a PAC for help, how do you get one on board?
[00:13:59] You're hoping [00:14:00] that they're going to come in. And to that point, what we would do is go forward and let's say what we knew in the campaign when you did, you know somebody out there making a case against our opponent while we were also making a case for ourselves because voters didn't know enough about us. And let's just keep our fingers crossed that somebody comes on. On the other side and starts going after the opponent. So that's a way of saying, you know, we don't we can't coordinate, but we're certainly winking at each other saying, hey, we take this road, maybe somebody will take this route. But, yeah, the laws are very specific about that, that they can't just come in and buy a candidate.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:14:40] And even when you've got the PACs, TV and radio are peppered with your face and bad voice overs and intimidating music, you still need to talk to voters. There's this huge machine swirling around you, but you have to kiss the babies. You have to nod solemnly when someone tells you about losing the job at the factory. [00:15:00] And Mark says that voters can tell when someone is just glad-handing them.
[00:15:05] So the campaign staff has to keep an ear to the ground.
Mark Squier: [00:15:07] And then we'll figure out sort of what it is the voters need to hear. And then the job of us together is to marry those two things up in a way that's authentic and credible and that hopefully gets people to vote for you. But yeah, I think too often there are some candidates who just expect it to be packaged and marketed. And I think fortunately, I would say most of those campaigns tend to fail because I think voters do give voters a lot of credit. I think they can sniff this stuff out. And I think most of the time they can they can they can figure it out and make the right choice.
Nick Capodice: [00:15:45] So let's say you're telling voters exactly what they want to hear and they're responding well and things are starting to seem real palpably possible.
[00:15:54] Does the campaigning then start to shift?
Mark Squier: [00:15:56] And I remember probably about three weeks before [00:16:00] Iowa finally went that that I began to think, wow, you know, this might actually happen because like another example, you know, you go from like, you know, booking the candidate and one person on a small airplane to fly around from Council Bluffs, Iowa, to Des Moines to Iowa City. Right. To. Well, there's now enough interest in funding in the campaign. And the press wants to follow you that you now have, like, you know, a 737 jet that flies everybody, including the press corps, like a mini Air Force One, if you will, from, you know, Iowa and New Hampshire to South Carolina.
[00:16:38] You know, in those initial days.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:16:39] Mark says the campaign does begin to take on a life of its own. Success breeds success. And we're gonna go all the way on primaries and caucuses and conventions in later episodes. But the long and short of it is just like Mark said. People start to think you might win and that means you get votes in the Iowa caucuses, you get votes [00:17:00] in the primary.
[00:17:01] Enough people in enough states think that you might actually stand a chance against another candidate and suddenly you find yourself standing behind a podium at the Democratic National Convention.
Michael Dukakis: [00:17:11] Mr. Chairman.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:17:17] Accepting the nomination for candidacy for president of the United States of America.
Michael Dukakis: [00:17:22] A few months ago, when Olympia Dukakis front of about a billion and a half television viewers all over the world raised that Oscar over her head and said, OK, Michael, let's go. She wasn't kidding.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:17:41] And everything changes.
Bakari Sellers: [00:17:44] Oh, they changed drastically. Oh, they changed so quickly.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:17:47] Bakari Sellers, again.
Bakari Sellers: [00:17:48] Your campaign goes from a campaign of maybe 40 people in your headquarters, 80 people in your quarters in these states around the country to [00:18:00] 300 people in your headquarters.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:18:04] Bakari says that very quickly, you have to be everywhere. It isn't just you anymore. You are part of something bigger now.
Bakari Sellers: [00:18:12] You merge operations with your party. You merge with the RNC or the DNC. You go from being one hundred million dollars, 200 million dollar operation to a billion and a half dollar operation. You spent all this time eating like fried Snickers and stuff like that in Iowa. And now you're in Florida. Every other day in Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio. You know, Pennsylvania. Running a primary and running a general. It's like apples and avocados. Like there's no no similarity.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:18:46] The way you approach voters has to change, too. Time is running out.
Bakari Sellers: [00:18:51] You're trying to message, you're trying to strategize. You're trying to make sure that on election day you have all of those people come out. So that becomes that never comes a point when you stop trying to strategize to [00:19:00] woo voters. That happens usually around October and at the beginning of October. There aren't many undecideds. There are people who you can convince to vote for you. They're people. People don't make their decision in October. Who they're going to vote for in November make that decision is already made. So in October, you switch over to what's called G.O.T.V. strategy, which is get out the vote strategy, and that's when you implement and try to figure out how you can get all those people from their couches to the ballot box.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:19:27] Picture Michael Dukakis fresh off his nomination. He's vetted and chosen a running mate, Lloyd Bentsen.
[00:19:33] And now the pressure is really on because he is playing for the biggest job in the country.
Michael Dukakis: [00:19:42] Once you win the nomination or the guy wins his nomination, now one of the two of you is going to be the leader of the free world.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:19:52] So in 1988, Michael Dukakis had proven to Democrats the country over that he could really possibly win.
Michael Dukakis: [00:20:00] And [00:20:00] everything you do for the moment you get outta bed to the moment you go to sleep is just subject to more enormous public scrutiny beyond anything you've had, even in a state that takes its politics very seriously with a very active and aggressive press corps, as this one is. I mean it's just a whole different ballgame.
[00:20:18] And I think one of the things that happens, it's almost inevitable, is you should got to way everything you say, everything you do.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:20:29] And it's just you and one other person under the microscope, in the pressure cooker.
[00:20:33] One on one debates.
Archival: [00:20:34] Because it's gotten a little ugly out there. It's gotten a little nasty. It's not much fun sometimes.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:20:41] Constant media attention.
Archival: [00:20:42] Do you feel that Michael has offered made his medical records public? Look, I'm not going to pick on an invalid.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:20:47] Attack ads.
Archival: [00:20:49] What else could it have been but these ads that drove up Michael Dukakis's negatives in the eyes of independents and Reagan Democrats?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:20:54] And of course, in the end there can only be one.
Michael Dukakis: [00:20:59] I called Vice President [00:21:00] Bush and congratulated him on his victory.
Michael Dukakis: [00:21:06] Did a great job in the program, and unfortunately screwed up the final, which was a very winnable race but didn't do the grassroots stuff and made a decision which turned out to be a pretty dumb decision that I was not going to respond to the Bush attack campaign. Keep it positive, this, that and the other thing. You want to keep it positive.
[00:21:28] But if somebody is coming at you with stuff, you've got to have a carefully thought out strategy for dealing with it. And I basically said, we're not going to do that. And it hurt me. Badly.
Nick Capodice: [00:21:40] It's just so much to go through it and possibly not make it to the end.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:21:46] Yeah. When we were speaking with Governor Dukakis and he was telling us this story, I just had to know what that does to you.
[00:21:55] Did you become disillusioned with politics through that process?
Michael Dukakis: [00:22:01] No. [00:22:00] Never have. You know, I'm not a guy that blames other people on me. I thought I thought I was responsible for my defeat because of these mistakes we made. And they weren't somebody else's mistakes. I'm not a guy that delegates responsibility of the campaign. Somebody else. I mean, you -- you've got to take responsibility. No, it did just you know, there were mistakes made. We ran a great primary and some lessons there for these candidates, particularly in a multi headed race. Don't start attacking some of your fellow Democrats.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:22:41] The fact is, Dukakis will always have been one of the two staring down the barrel of the presidency.
[00:22:48] I mean, my last question is just what is it like after the fact? Has your life changed significantly, having been the nominee and getting so close?
Michael Dukakis: [00:23:00] Yes, [00:23:00] in one respect. I think despite my loss that people look at you as somebody who's had interesting experience. Needless to say, and particularly now, you know, what was it like? What do you think? Do you think the candidates are doing this kind of thing. And people, I think, probably credit you with some degree of experience and maybe wisdom when it comes to this kind of thing.
Nick Capodice: [00:23:31] I think possibly the real answer to what's it like to run for president is try it and you'll find out, kid.
[00:23:40] Try it and you'll find out.
Archival: [00:23:43] I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.
[00:23:50] I have so many opportunities from this country. I just don't want to see us fall backwards.
[00:23:57] I am paying for this microphone.
[00:24:00] Commerce, [00:24:00] education and the uh -- what's the third one there, let's see?
[00:24:05] You know, when I came back from Vietnam, I just had the greatest brainwashing that anybody can get.
[00:24:10] Read my lips. No new taxes.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:24:16] I forgot to mention, Nick, we've really only been talking about presidential elections that played out without too much drama because there are attack ads and then there's violence, fraud, contested votes and constitutional crisis.
Nick Capodice: [00:24:31] What election you're talking about?
Brady Carlson: [00:24:33] We're talking about the 1876 election, the one that has been called, and I quote, the ugliest, most contentious presidential election ever.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:24:43] Brady Carlson from Wisconsin Public Radio. He is going to be joining us at the end of every episode in the series to share one of his favorite presidential elections.
Brady Carlson: [00:24:51] All that ugliness and contentiousness had a pretty profound effect on American history, even if the candidates in that election aren't exactly top tier historical [00:25:00] figures today.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:25:01] Who are they?
[00:25:02] Two governors, Republican Rutherford B Hayes of Ohio.
Nick Capodice: [00:25:05] Vote for Hayes!
Brady Carlson: [00:25:05] And Democrat Samuel J. Tilden of New York.
Nick Capodice: [00:25:09] Tilden.
Brady Carlson: [00:25:09] And both of them were known as reformers.
[00:25:13] And that's because the outgoing administration of President Ulysses S. Grant had developed a reputation for how do I put this nicely needing reform.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:25:22] What did Grant do?
[00:25:24] Well, wasn't so much what Grant did, but the people underneath him, whom he trusted and maybe shouldn't have. Were alternately enriching themselves at the font of the government, helping their friends. So the country was not feeling great about its direction. The economy had been in trouble for a number of years, and the two people who were nominated to succeed Grant were seen as straight and narrow kind of guys, even if they weren't the most exciting candidates. In fact, one of hazes nicknames was Old Granny.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:25:57] So [00:26:00] who won, Brady?
Brady Carlson: [00:26:00] Well, from the looks of the popular vote, Tilden appeared to have narrowly won, which would have made him the first Democrat to win the White House in twenty years. In fact, the Republican nominee, old Granny Hayes, went to bed on election night believing that he'd lost.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:26:16] But.
Brady Carlson: [00:26:17] But as we've seen so many times, winning the popular vote does not equal winning the presidency.
[00:26:22] The votes that matter are electoral votes. And it wasn't 270 to win in 1876. The magic number then was one hundred eighty five. Tilden had one hundred eighty four. Hayes had won sixty five. But there were three states where Republicans said Tilden only won here because there had been massive voter suppression, fraud, all kinds of trouble. And there was also a single electoral vote from Oregon that was held up as well. So there are 20 electoral votes still up in the air. You get faithless electors all over the place. And at the same time, Democrats are saying there had been suppression and voter fraud in other parts of the state caused by Republicans. There [00:27:00] was even a story that the election board in one of those disputed states had offered to certify the election for Tilden and the Democrats in exchange for a million dollars. So ironically, in this campaign, with two reform candidates, both parties end up saying the other has tried to steal the election. And meanwhile, there's nobody with a majority of electoral votes.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:27:18] What do we do when there's no winner?
[00:27:20] Under the Constitution, it's up to Congress to count the electoral votes. And Congress was, like it is today, split. The House had a Democratic majority. The Senate Republican majority.
[00:27:32] So they decided to set up an electoral commission to review and then award these disputed electoral votes. They set it up so it would have five members of the U.S. House, five senators and five Supreme Court justices. And it was politically balanced. There would be seven Republicans, seven Democrats and one independent.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:27:49] Brady, that sounds like a total circus.
Brady Carlson: [00:27:51] And it's about to get even weirder.
[00:27:55] The independent justice was a guy called David Davis, a justice from Illinois. And [00:28:00] just as Congress is about to convene this very carefully, put together delicately balanced committee, Davis gets word back from Illinois that surprise the Democratic majority legislature there has elected him to the U.S. Senate.
[00:28:13] So Davis decides he can't be on the commission. He resigns. And the other four justices approve his replacement, Joseph Bradley, who was a Republican. And so the commission has eight Republican members who then outvote the seven Democratic members to award all of the disputed electoral votes to the Republican Rutherford B Hayes, giving him one hundred eighty five electoral votes, a one vote majority over Tilden and Rutherford. B. Hayes gets a new nickname to replace Old Granny. He's now called Rutherford Fraud.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:28:44] Rutherfraud! Ooh, that is a clever one, they knew what they were doing back then.
Brady Carlson: [00:28:50] And there's more. Congress then has to decide whether or not to accept the commission's decision, because under the Constitution, that's their job. The Republican Senate is ready for [00:29:00] Rutherford. The Democratic House is still convinced he's run their fraud and they decide maybe they're just not going to take up the Electoral College vote at all.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:29:08] And all of this under the threat of maybe having an empty chair in the Oval Office.
Brady Carlson: [00:29:13] Yeah, the clock is ticking here. When March 4th, 1877 rolls around, President Grant is leaving office. And unless someone is declared the winner of the election. Well, who's the next president going to be? So finally, the two parties work out a deal. Democrats say they will accept the commission's conclusion and they will vote to accept Hayes as the winner. But on a certain condition, they want federal troops removed from the capitals of several southern states. They had been there during reconstruction to, among other things, ensure that states were protecting the civil rights of black residents. This deal goes through March 2nd, which means President elect Hayes has a transition period of two days. A little rough for him, sure, but only a small hurdle compared to what was coming for black Americans. Whites have called this the compromise of [00:30:00] 1877. African-Americans have long called it the great betrayal. One more note about this election. Hayes, of course, goes on to be president. As for Tilden, he used to joke that he had the great honor of being elected president without having to deal with all the headaches of the office. But it had to have heard at least a little bit. And you might find out his true feelings about the 1876 election on his tomb in New York, where you'll find the words, quote, "I still trust the people.".
Hannah McCarthy: [00:30:29] Wow. Thank you, Brady.
Brady Carlson: [00:30:31] Glad to be here.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:30:39] That is a wrap on our episode about how to run for president of these United States of America. But there is a lot more in this series, including caucuses, primaries and conventions, DNC and RNC and of course, the very daunting Electoral College.
[00:30:55] Civics 101 is produced by me, Hannah McCarthy with Nick Capodice, [00:31:00] Erika Janik is our executive producer, Maureen McMurry has secretly run every successful presidential campaign in American history. Music in this episode by Junior 85, Florian Decros, Chris Zabriskie, Cambo and Broke for Free. We have more resources like graphic organizers, for those of you playing at home, as well as our contact info at civics101podcast.org -- hit us up. We want to hear from you. Civics 101 is produced in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and is a production of NHPR, New Hampshire Public Radio.
