Today on Civics 101 we talk about truth, bias, and objectivity in reporting. I visited Barbara Sprunt, reporter at the Washington desk at NPR, who told me what it's like to cover Capitol Hill.
Barbara told me about her schedule, what to listen for when interviewing members of Congress, and what she says to accusations of political bias.
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Transcript
Civics 101_NPR final.mp3
Speaker1: Hey.
Nick Capodice: Sorry, I'm a little burned it down. Otherwise, shake your hands. I'm so sorry. Can I carry something? No.
Barbara Sprunt: you've got, like, all things considered. Over here. Morning edition, over here. I come in to the office like, a couple times a week. Because it's really the only time I get to see everyone here who doesn't work on the Hill. Um, but when Congress is in session, I'm usually on the hill.
Nick Capodice: You're listening to Civics 101 I'm Nick Capodice [00:00:30] and today we are talking about what it's like to report on Congress. And yes, Hannah's voice is still barely audible after recovering from the flu. So this bird is flying solo. What do you think about that? No other host today. No buddy on the microphone. And you know what? I'm gonna say it. It's probably for the best, because in our episodes, one [00:01:00] of us usually explains something to the other person. Like, that's our format, right? And this episode is about journalism. And how the heck would I explain journalism to Hannah McCarthy, one of the finest journalists I know? So it's going to be all right. We at Civics 101 all went to Washington, D.C. for a week this spring, and I was slightly nervous going into the underbelly of the National Archives or, you know, visiting the Australian Embassy. But this [00:01:30] building was the one I was most nervous to enter, and I don't really understand why. Maybe you can figure it out and explain it to me later. This building is the headquarters of NPR, National Public Radio. And before I launch into the interview, I want to really quickly outline the structure of public radio in the United States, just in case there's anybody out there who doesn't understand it. I sure didn't when I started here in 2017. I grew up listening to it. I grew up listening [00:02:00] to Car Talk, music from the hearts of space, and this song by BJ Leiderman
Nick Capodice: But I didn't know what public radio was exactly. Like. I knew it worked differently than commercial outlets like CNN or CBS, and that it was member supported, but it was still a little foggy. So here is how it works. N [00:02:30]HPR, my employer, the people who make Civics 101, that is what's called a member station of NPR, National Public Radio. There are about a thousand of these member stations in the US. Half of them are run by colleges or universities. They're independently owned and run. They can and they usually do purchase news programs like Morning Edition or All Things Considered from NPR. It's like how your local TV station, they have their own news program, [00:03:00] but then they air these national news shows like Dateline. But as long as they work within a certain set of guidelines, member stations can do whatever they want. They can have local news reporting, they can make their own shows, podcasts, anything. Now, NPR has a colossal newsroom. They are highly respected. They've got bureaus all over the world, and they also rely on the reporters and programing from these respective member stations. It's like an ecosystem of news sharing. [00:03:30] So Hannah and I have been on NPR talking about Civics 101, and we've had NPR journalists on the show talking about various political topics. But I had never been in the building before until now, when I finally got to ask a congressional reporter, what is it that you do? And this is my tour guide and interview subject and all around very kind person.
Barbara Sprunt: My name is Barbara Sprunt, and I cover Congress here at NPR.
Nick Capodice: Barbara has worked at NPR [00:04:00] for ten years, and she's reported at the Washington desk for the last four. This is the first time I've held a microphone in like five years. So thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. It's got this is my friend's microphone. It's got dead cat on it for like at a base one on one level. Like, what do you do now. Like what's your job.
Barbara Sprunt: Day to day. There's sort of like a, a tentative structure that has helped me sort of figure out what my day is and what my, what my week is. So usually, like, folks come back, folks like, lawmakers come back on Monday nights [00:04:30] like they're gone for the weekend. They go back to their district or their state and, um, and then they come back around, you know, afternoon on Monday. So sometimes there will be votes on Monday night.
Nick Capodice: You can see this in action for yourself. By the way, if you go to clerk House.gov, you can search for legislation by date. So the Monday after I talked to Barbara, April 29th, there were indeed two bills voted on around 7 p.m. the Privacy Enhancing Technology Research Act and the Fire Weather Development [00:05:00] Act. I invite you to check those bills out yourself if you're interested. And they both passed via the tried and true method of voting under suspension of the rules with the two thirds majority. So that's Monday night, Tuesday.
Barbara Sprunt: You've got some like pretty standard meetings of the Republican conference in the morning. There's Senate lunches at 2:00, 2:00 ish on on Tuesdays. And basically that just means like they're all getting lunch and we all know that they're getting lunch. So then we all know [00:05:30] that they'll come out eventually. And that's when we can ask some questions. So, you know, a lot of it ends up being knowing where to stand, knowing where to wait and knowing who you're looking for.
Nick Capodice: I did not know about the Senate's Tuesday lunches. These are a long standing tradition. They go back to the 1950s and honestly, it seems not entirely unlike like a high school lunch. Uh, the senators get food at a buffet, and they sit at tables through the unspoken laws [00:06:00] of cliques and friendships. Congressional staff and the press are not allowed at these lunches. This is where the senators plan out their week, what they're going to do. And no surprise, the Democrats and the Republicans usually sit on opposite sides of the cafeteria. Sometimes, apparently, there is some rather touchy back and forth between these two sides of the room. I do not want to paint a picture here that it's like the gym dance in West Side Story all the time. Sometimes there is some true reaching across the buffet and this [00:06:30] lunchroom, some private conference rooms, and a very specific Senate only elevator. Those are like a few of the only places that Barbara is not allowed to go.
Barbara Sprunt: The access is incredible. You know, you are allowed almost everywhere that lawmakers are. You have a lot of ability to just like go up to them politely and ask them questions. It just it's it's a game changer for trying to like, understand what's going on, move the needle forward on various news fronts, [00:07:00] and also just get to know the lawmakers, but also like their staff. And that's a really, I think, rewarding and fun experience, very different from, say like the white House. Like I have a lot more access to Chuck Schumer than say, I do have Joe Biden. So as it should be, I think. But, you know.
Nick Capodice: One thing I wanted to know is how on earth does a reporter know who everyone is? There's 535 of them. How does she remember their names?
Barbara Sprunt: I have flash cards still, you know, to try to understand. [00:07:30] Like, who are all these members? Some of them look the same, frankly. And so you have to, like I study every night trying to do a better job of recognizing people in the hallways. There's so many more people on the on the house side. I use less flash cards on the Senate side than I do on the House side. I think there are a lot of people who have covered Congress for a long time, who are very confident, who don't need to prep, and I admire them. And but I am not that person, and I need to prep. And so I keep like a [00:08:00] list of questions and I keep, um, you know, because I also think, like, you don't want to have a moment where you've finally, like, pulled aside this member and then you have like, they actually have time and you only have 1 or 2 questions. And so I try to have a list of questions. I try to have a list when I go to a particular stakeout. Like, who do I want to talk to? Who could tell me a piece of the puzzle that I don't yet have?
Nick Capodice: Because Barbara has the DC press pass, she [00:08:30] has a massive advantage over somebody like me or you listening to this show right now. She can go to the Speaker's lobby every day. That's where the press meets up with representatives. She can just walk right up to a member of Congress and say, hey, why did you do this? Why did you vote for that? Tell me all your thoughts on H.R. 8017. However, she gave me some tips. You, too can get your finger on the pulse of Congress.
Barbara Sprunt: I think it's just helpful [00:09:00] to reach out to offices to get on email lists. I mean, that's and if you're not in the building, that's a really good way of like figuring out, like, where are these lawmakers? Like what legislation are they pushing or introducing? Who are they working with? Because sometimes it will say like co-sponsored, you know, this bill with so and so um, and then also, you know, there's a lot of reporting that can be done when lawmakers go back to their districts, there's working periods, and we're in a recess right now. Lawmakers [00:09:30] go back home. And often, especially in an election year, which we are in, uh, you know, they'll have, um, ceremonies and they'll have, you know, ribbon cuttings and they'll open new centers, you know, anything to sort of move the needle on their campaign, I think, do things for their district. I gather around the ribbon.
Archival: Gather around the ribbon. And the congressman and the senator are going to pick up these very attractive saws.
Barbara Sprunt: And that's a really great place to not only interview [00:10:00] the lawmaker, but also like their constituents.
Nick Capodice: One newsletter that Barbara said she relies on an awful lot is Congressional Quarterly and it's not free. But they do run a free website called Roll Call, which you should definitely check out. Their newsletter is not only the one that DC reporters subscribe to, but, you know, politicians and lobbyists as well. So it's pretty darn thorough. Another recommendation that is free is Pluribus News. That is a website [00:10:30] that focuses on state legislation. Because remember, state policy can eventually become federal policy. So Barbara said earlier, she does a lot of prep before she goes out and interviews members of the Congress. And I can see why there are a lot of them. And NPR has three congressional reporters.
Barbara Sprunt: It's sometimes funny because I'll I'll go, you know, on Big Story Days on the Hill, which you come every now and then, you [00:11:00] really can sense the, I guess, lack of size that we have compared to other outlets. I'll see, like NBC has like people at every door, you know, and CNN has their great staffs and I'm like, oh, man.
Nick Capodice: Barbara told me about her last Big story day. And that was right after the House passed the foreign aid bill on April 20th. So she ran over and spoke to Maxwell Frost, the Democratic representative from Florida. And then she ran over to talk to Marjorie Taylor Greene and Chip Roy, reps from Georgia and Texas, respectively
Barbara Sprunt: Who have [00:11:30] been really vocal about their displeasure with the speaker and the way that he's negotiated some of these recent deals. Now, the other part of that is Marjorie Taylor Greene and Chip Roy were also swarmed with lots of people like me in the in that particular day. And so, you know, sometimes you don't get your question answered when there's like 30 reporters surrounding one lawmaker.
Archival: Ma'am, why is the fight against Russia what you just said? Are you waiting to see if there will be more support in your conference before...Calling a motion to vacate? There is more support. [00:12:00] It's growing. I've said from the beginning, I'm going to be responsible with this.
Barbara Sprunt: The benefit of that is usually people are asking about the newsiest thing going on that day, which is what you need anyway. So if you have your mic, you're in a good place.
Nick Capodice: All right, to recap, if you're going to be a reporter on Capitol Hill, subscribe to newsletters, follow state legislation, and keep your mic out and turned on at all times. And also don't shout over other reporters asking questions. Barbara [00:12:30] told me about that later. That's just kind of gauche. All right. We've got to take a quick break. And when we come back, I'm going to delve into some weighty words like bias, objectivity, truth.
Archival: You want answers? I want The truth.
Nick Capodice: Hey. And while we're talking about newsletters, why don't you subscribe to ours? It's called extra credit. It is free as a bird. And you can check it out at our website, civics101podcast.org. Also, it's our podcast fund drive and we have a really cool new tote bag that we want to show [00:13:00] everyone. You can check that out too while you're there. All right.
Nick Capodice: We're back. I'm back.
Nick Capodice: Nick here alone today.
Nick Capodice: Talking about what it's like to be a congressional reporter for NPR. Uh, this is after I visited with Barbara Sprunt in DC. And now it is time for us to talk about the thing. The big thing.
Archival: Why don't you tell the people the truth for a change? The truth. The man wants [00:13:30] the truth. The truth. What is the truth? Said jesting Pilate and would not stay for an answer. The truth you want. What are you doing in the Senate?
Nick Capodice: So this is my personal takeaway from visiting Washington, D.C., and it's why I wanted to talk about getting the truth out of people to me. Washington, D.C. felt like a city of storytelling, not lies necessarily storytelling. And of course it is, right? [00:14:00] People go to D.C. to get stuff done, either for themselves or for the people they represent. And you get what you want by telling a good story. Politicians are remarkable storytellers. You know.
Archival: When I was young and growing up, I remember coming down the the steps into the kitchen.
Nick Capodice: And if they don't get anything done, they'll tell a good story to explain why.
Archival: House Republicans passed that. But in this deal that was cut, we don't do that. Why? Why? [00:14:30]
Nick Capodice: As a result, it can be pretty hard to get them to divert from that story to tell you something. And sometimes you can't get what you want.
Barbara Sprunt: I think this maybe is something that has been like in the ether in the last couple of years, more than I think before the idea of truth. And people have their, you know, we'll say, you know, this is my truth, this is their truth. And I think, like, my job is to think about what are the facts, because [00:15:00] I think that the truth, you know, with the capital T means different things to different people. And I don't want to get into the realm of being like, well, this is my truth. This is their truth. Like we're talking about x, y, z. I'm like, there are hard facts. Someone votes a certain way that's on the record. Um, someone comes out of a meeting where they're talking with their colleagues and they'll tell you, you know, you'll ask them, what was this meeting about, how was the reaction? And they'll tell you, and then you can go [00:15:30] to other lawmakers that were in that meeting and say, like I heard, there was like a lot of booze in this meeting or like people were, you know, very agitated, like, what was was that true? Was that your experience like. And you can I think like trust but verify, right. Like if someone is also at some point like this is not Joe Schmo on the side of the road talking to you. This is an elected representative of Congress. I asked them questions and I hear what they're saying. I try to, you know, parcel out what could [00:16:00] be the political motivation here or there, maybe ask a question about the political motivation and then go back and talk to their their colleagues. Sometimes there are questions that people don't want to answer. It's their right not to answer them, and it's our right to ask them anyway and then be told, politely or otherwise. I don't want to answer that question.
Nick Capodice: I asked Barbara what we should be looking out for. Like if we were congressional reporters, what should make our ears perk up a little? What should we be paying attention to?
Barbara Sprunt: There are these big [00:16:30] things that you have to cover, like spending fights like that's a big deal, not just at the Capitol, but what that means for everyone back home. But I am interested in bills, not the bills that are introduced just to make a point. And we'll never go anywhere. But I am interested in particular bills that have bipartisan, you know, co-sponsoring bipartisan support and even those that don't get across the finish line. I think that that can tell you, particularly if you see it as sort of like a trend on a particular issue, I think [00:17:00] that can tell you something about like what's bubbling beneath the surface that has teeth. Um, and, you know, maybe one day it will have even more teeth and then become something that, like, gets taken up more fully. I feel like it's safe to say that this is a very toxic environment, not only on the Hill, but, you know, it's toxic. I mean, sadly, I think it's toxic everywhere. And people are not talking to each other. They're talking past each other. And I think [00:17:30] that, um, I'm always interested in people who have relationships across the aisle in Congress.
Nick Capodice: The last thing I wanted to talk to Barbara about, and it's tied to bipartisanship or the lack thereof. It's tied to capital T truth. There are members of Congress and members of the public who have accused NPR of being left leaning. And in the news recently, an editor at NPR resigned after writing [00:18:00] an op ed that painted a similar picture. A picture, by the way, that many people who work there say isn't accurate. And this is also tied to the misconception that NPR is quote unquote, government funded, which is not accurate. We're going to get into that in another episode soon. So I asked Barbara, what do you say when these accusations of bias are levied against you?
Barbara Sprunt: Yeah, I mean, I am not registered with a party because I cover Republicans and Democrats and I don't, you know, [00:18:30] I would never want that. A party registration to, you know, like change the way that people think about approaching me in terms of work. I think that's true for a lot of political journalists. I also think that I can't represent a full organization. And I wouldn't want to, you know, because we're all different. We all have different, like, work products and, you know, opinions. And I can represent myself and I will tell people and have told people, you know, I am a fair reporter. I stand on my own [00:19:00] record. It's all online. You can see what I've done. I want to talk to you because I want to hear what you have to say. And I want people back home to hear what you have to say. And I wouldn't be approaching you if it wasn't in good faith. I think, you know, people can choose to believe that or not. Um, some do, some still don't want to do an interview, and that's their right. Nothing is meant as like a gotcha. I mean, you know, especially NPR, like, this is not, you know, this is not Comedy Central. And I'm just [00:19:30] really trying to understand, like, what do you think? And I'm going to try to represent what you think to other people the best that I can. I think as a small little tangent, I really feel that in a time when local news is being gutted and that's where everything matters. I mean, I'm not saying that what I, I think it's important covering the Hill, but there are also other people covering the hill. What's going on in local communities is not always covered by, you know, hundreds of other journalists, [00:20:00] certainly. And so that I think, is critical to keeping people informed. And I do feel like NPR offers something unique and critical in this environment. And I think, like the NPR ecosystem with member stations is, like, critical to keeping people informed on what's going on in their backyards. So that's my little, like, soapbox.
Nick Capodice: And I'm going to close out by echoing that point. I don't feel it's a political opinion for me to [00:20:30] say that wherever you live and whomever you choose to support as a political candidate, you should support local journalism wherever it is. Yes, Washington, D.C. is a magical place. To me. It is a place of stories and monument and power. But your states, your cities, your towns, they are, as the saying goes, laboratories of democracy. Legislation from D.C. [00:21:00] can and does trickle down to affect your daily life, but it can also go the other way.
Nick Capodice: Well, that is what it's like to cover Congress. This episode was made by me Nick Capodice. My co-host is Hannah McCarthy. Very much more on the mend than last week. Rebecca Lavoie is our executive producer and Christina Phillips our senior producer. Music in this [00:21:30] episode by Music in this episode by Ryan Kilkenny, Margareta, El Flaco Collective, Nych Caution, Hatamitsunami, Emily Sprague, Hanu Dixit, Timecrawler, Blue Dot Sessions, and Chris Zabrizke. I'm going to Car Talk this thing out. And as much as they hang their heads in shame every time they hear it. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR, [00:22:00] New Hampshire Public Radio.
Nick impersonating Click and Clack: The Honda Civic is the only car he could afford. Smoke billowing out of the back. Don't vote like my brother, don't vote like my brother.